Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

(COINS) $10 Indians & $20 Saints "Movin on up"
(Mr.GoldBug) Jan 10, 17:51

http://www.pcgs.com/prices/frame_pf....agle&type=date

http://www.pcgs.com/prices/frame_pf....enty&type=date

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

I smell vindication in the air. Only wish I could have afforded more of those MS64 Indians at $1300 last year. My numismatic gold is up at my sell price about 10% more than my bullion. The numismatic silver on the other hand is languishing.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Yes we have no bananas, only 12 cents a pound.

Numismatic "values" moving up. Getting the "up" when you decide to sell, that is the real trick.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Absolutely true in the 1980 run up. Numismatic's were pissed that no TRUE increase in value was present. As no coin shop in their right mind was paying a premium prices on soaring gold prices.

Did you ever consider the coin shops might be trying to pump up interests in their hobby?

Bullion is money, numisimatic's is more like collecting beanie babies. Don't be a :sheep:

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Come on guy, I do believe a one or even one half ounce gold coin has more value as just bullion than a beanie baby does as raw material.

Wait.....it's coming to me.....ah I see clearly now, better to throw your gambling money at the paper trade, you can loose it all and more quickly. We all know that the market shills don't pump or manipulate the paper markets don't we?

This will not be a replay of the '80's.....the upper 20% now controls 70% of the wealth so the middle class does not have the wealth to bail out the fed this time around with higher taxes and interest rates effectively slamming the brakes on the alternative investments. The tax base is going, going, soon to be gone. Also during the '80's numismatic coins were no longer allowed to be put in IRA's which was one of the driving forces in that numismatic run up. Extra supply was introduced as people were forced to liquidate their numismatic IRA holdings coupled at the same time with the reduced demand to place them in IRA's killed that run but good.

There should be room for numismatic's in a balanced portfolio. Coins have been valued and collected for thousands of years and you always have the bullion price as your stop loss point. You can loose money with them but you can't go totally bust.

My Great Uncle was a sheep hearder in the Columbia River Gorge area when I was coming up so I've been around more mutton than the average Joe. Believe me, none of them collected coins!

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

:cheerful: Call www.goldcentral.com and tell them you're interested in buying gold bullion. You see what they're selling and exactly what I'm talking about. Toll Free: 1 800 965-0580
They'll give you the pitch about collectable coins appreciation and risk of confiscation with bullion. They're selling a dream.
http://cmi-gold-silver.com/gold-confiscation-1933.html

I think it's great thing to collect coins, just remember there's a difference between collecting and preserving capital. As AuNuggets put it precisly, Getting the "up" when you decide to sell, that is the real trick.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

I'm not talking about a dream or some over priced graded bullion coin or even some special find like a shipwreck or something, just finding value and you sure won't get it from some salesman, agreed.

I scour web pages and scout the local shops. Last weekend I picked up a MS60 1924 P St. Gaudens for $520. Not exactly a rip off and I could sell it tomorrow for at least $560 to a place within walking distance. Like anything else you must know the market and accept some risk. I do hold mostly bullion to preserve capital and just play with the collectables. More than half the fun is in the hunt.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

More than half the fun is, The Hunt. I agree so very much. I sometimes hear that, funky 70's music beat in my head, as I pull up to a new coin shop, respond to an ad, or by word of mouth, visiting someone willing to dump coins.. My loupe is my gun. My mind racing, anticipating, will this be a diamond in the ruff? Wahcka, Wahcka, Waaaaaaa, as I stride on in... A real modern day, Starsky without a hutch...

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Welcome SSOO, glad to have a like mind around here on this. It gets a bit lonely for the Numismatic fan some times. Most here don't care for the numismatic premiums, prefer to look at things at their bullion value and obviously don't like or understand the joy of the hunt. I also like your choice of axe, Ziess optics have always been excellent. Have them on all of my cameras.

Personally I don't have the hair on top for a good '70's do any more or the waistline to wear my old bell bottoms. Plus I also live in fear of my high heeled Frye boots, an accident waiting to happen. The words, I've fallen and I can't get up, run through my mind every time I look at them in the closet.....

The reality is Karl Malden or Telly Savalas (from that same time period, as I believe both are dead now) would be closer looks wise these days. But I too still get the feeling of anxious anticipation while stalking.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Sturdly,
Telly Savalas would spend time during the summer here, on the beach in NY. It's funny you mentioned him, I have memories as a kid seeing him around here. It was the word on the street between us 10,11 and 12 yr olds... Hey thats, Kojak's car. Yeah well, I saw him on the boardwalk yesterday... So on and so on.
Anyway, maybe we can meet up Mid-West/East one day when Silver Takes off... Have Hollywood make a film about us and how we got Rich?
They can get us a, Silver and Gold 1970 GTO. Set a theme song to U2 (Silver and Gold). We'll drive country wide, snuffing unscrupulous coin dealers trying to sell us, cleaned or below, MS-66, 1996 SAE's... By word of mouth, we'll check and help all those OLD Ladies with coins, hidden away. As usual, 100's of pennies and silver dimes and only one or two Morgans... We'll have the good ones graded for them and accept a tip in, 90% coins. Flipping them in the air upon payment with big ole Cool Aid smiles as our film signature...
PCGS on our license plates and NGC tattoos... The bad guys chasing us, will be the Federal Reserve Bank goons.... In there SUV's, handing out credit card applications at every McDonalds, used car dealerships, High Schools and malls. We'll have 99999999.9% silver bullet loaded guns, with Carl Zeiss Scopes to paralyze them, before spreading more Debt.

Lastly, thanks for the excellent advice on graded SAE's (In the monster boxes). So I guess what I need to look for is, a sealed green 1996 monster box and send it to, NGC... Sturdly, lets make my film a reality... Lets begin the hunt... Wackaaaa Wackaaaaa waaahhhhh Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh... Lol
Silver Ozzy.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

I was searching and found about 10 of those 1996 silver rolls. My guess is MS 64 to 65.

PS the GOLD prices just went up again yesterday at PCGS.

I bought a proof set of Silver eagles in PF69 last year - real pretty.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

It's getting harder to find any deals on the pre '33 MS64 and up stuff for sure.The market appears to be tightening in certain areas. I'm a little surprised the Liberties aren't doing better. For sure gold only, the majority of the pre '33 silver has been, shall we say, lackluster for quite some time.

Like that set myself and still not really that expensive.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

History Student, Ironically enough, I am trying to figure out if the, 1996 (Better Graded) SAE's will in fact become, valuable HISTORY? In the near future.

I think it has been established that, somewhere down the line, your rolls were, Cherry Picked. Most likely, soon after they were minted. Furthermore, with your guess @ MS-64-MS-65's(I would bet dollars to donuts that, you are correct with those grades), where does that leave you (Us) as collectors? Do you sell the rolls as is? Or do you spend the fiat and get them graded? If so, in how many years will a, 1996 PCGS or NGC slabbed, MS-64/65 coin become valuable??? In fifty years? When the price of Silver Sky Rockets? Or when this current series of, SAE's end?

Will they become, Morgan Dollar valuable within my lifetime?

Right now a 1996 coin in that grade, goes for maybe ten bucks or so, over the weight value. Whereas, you can't get an ungraded 1996 coin for under, 40ish bucks...??? Sometimes, eye just don't get it???

Is it obvious that I am, 1996 SAE heavy? I started collecting a few years ago. With not much advice. Just my gut. So I bought em and bought em. Sent them all to, PCGS. Proud to say, I never got one below an, MS-66. Lucky me, I have read more than once that, a lot of people feel that, MS-66 and below SAE's are not even worth collecting. Nonetheless, I started looking to make short sets, 1994,1997,1995 and 98's same grades.
Then I found, GIM and started buying plain ole generics.
Being intrigued by this threads title... I got excited and am asking for advice... Should I bury my MS66 SAE's (Rare Dates) and on up and just hope that they some day soon RISE along with their weight? Or bury them deeper and leave a note and map for when my kids are 30 (My kids are unborn...lol)? Anyone else think/hope the current series will end soon? Possibly helping their value climb?

Moreover, I was just wondering if you (History Student) tought that the, 1996 proofs are as rare as the business strikes? They aren't, the proofs are like the 7th rarest. As well, I did notice the PCGS gold price rise. Along with the article in, coinworld, that they want to integrate a, 100-point grading system.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Ladies and gentlemen, I apologize. I meant for the above diatribe on, 1996 SAE's to be posted on the, numismatic thread. Sorry for messing up this, Gold coin thread, with my newbie mistake... I'll pay more attention...:offtopic:

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

WAY UP again:

http://www.pcgs.com/prices/frame_pf....enty&type=date


Down the road I'll send in the '96 (and other '90s rolls) into NGC (I'm a member). PCGS too: but I don't like the way (PCGS) treats the members - like dirt.

Right now I see an EBAY all the GOLD certified NGC/PCGS stuff is going through the roof. Almost doubled from a couple of years ago.

Down the road (90% of Saints are investor/collectors) the gold stuff is really gonna CLIMB!

Get a floor safe surrounded with concrete - and put them in there - much cleaner and easier to store.

PS - the proofs in PF69 are much more PRETTY/FROSTED than the business strikes and they do DEMAND a priemium on EBAY per set. The PF70 are way too overpriced - but they'll probably bring the big bucks later.

PS II - In the Saints I've noticed that the lower priced MS63/65 COMMON DATES go up rather well - seems joe sixpack grabs the best price first - that means the common dated ones.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Gold SAINT prices up again see first post.


My guess is that when gold hits a GRAND the MS65 common dated Saints will be around $4000.00 - they are about $1500 today if you shop around -

EBAY and other sites.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Actually that could prove to be a conservative projection. I looked at Apmex and they have them for $1390 for 5 or more plus ship and ins. of course. The MS65 Saint is the last affordable pre '33 American gold you can buy at the higher grade and still get a hefty slug of gold.

I'm wondering how the Indians will do. Found another '32 P MS64 Eagle for $2100 paid $1365 for the last one I bought within the past year, close to $2500 most places. To buy or not ? Some of the prices, especially the
1/4 and 1/2 ounce incuse seem quite a ways ahead of the curve. Wish I had some!

Will the Liberties ever catch up?

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

I have the old $20 books on individual charts for the Saints: CDN Graphs 1980 to 2005.

See Ebay search.

Do an Ebay search for $20 and ask for higest prices you'll be amazed at all the gold coins therein down a few pages at $100,000 grand plus.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

I really don't understand numismatic sheeple.

One oz of Au is one oz.

I can melt down a 2005 eagle and stamp it as a 1933.

It's like buying a Gibson Les Paul because of the headstock sticker and paying far more than say buying a Heritage.

Some people are pretty stupid I guess.

The same people would have a mortgage and be a slave to the bankers and give them interest on FRN's they don't have when they give the loan.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Quite simple really. The higher MS grades like 63 get spot plus a 50% kicker: a 64 gets spot plus a 80 to 100% kicker: and MS65 gets spot plus a two hundred percent kicker. I guess it fun to have just a few around and get those free two hundred percent kickers.

I bout about ten raw coins back in in 2001 for about $315 each. All were saints looked in MS grade and were reasonable to me being so old. Sent them in and they came back 2- MS65; 4-MS64; 3-MS63; 1-MS62.

So I got 2 - $1750 retails
4 - $1100 retails
3- $920 retails
1- $825 retail

Paid $3,150 now encapsalated PCGS worth Retail - $11,485 and I can sell them certified on ebay for around $10,000 easy aand set reserves.

Now in plain bullion I'd have maybe $5,800 for the ten coins.

Hope that helps explain one of nuances.

Go figure.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

History Student what do you think of these 8 piece US Gold sets ms62 and ms63 that CNI is pushing. The coins are really beautiful. I haven't really had the desire to bite but the old coins are nice. They are under the certified gold tab if you want to take a look.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

You got it Toyota!

The plain bullion is BORING. The coins have a kicker plus the gold value.

MS63 plus 50%

MS64 plus 80 to 100%

MS65 plus 200%


Saw a 1922-S on Ebay lats night - raw in France go for less than $2000.00
almost bid figured by visual grading it would bring at least $3000 MS63 to $7,400 MS64 and maybe $40,000 MS65 - but I got CHICKEN. Darn thing was in "France" and I was second guessing my grading abilities.

Imagine me crying about losing two grand in France. They love us so much.

As a Member of both NGC and PCGS I am - but still scared for two grand in France. Worse case senario was $1,600 as MS60.

It is the hunt.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

History Student and Sturdly,
You guys are always so right and on the money. You guys are fast becomming my favorites. Just wanted to give you guys a pat on the back.

In regards to the hunt... I'm retired. Started thinking, how can I broaden my hunt for coins and keep it cheap? So I started working for a major airline, part-time. I get a kick when all the young kids gather around and ask, where did you go on your days off and rattle off, money sucking destinations. Then hey old man, where did you go? I reply, Coin hunting, far away, with a big smile. It really throws them a curve ball.
But about a coin in, France! I would be worried about taking that home. Or should I say how to get it home? Shipping is scarrrrry and worse yet is, Customs. I had a 1996 PCGS MS-69 confiscated from my person. It won't be difficult to get back. But it got me thinking, what if it were an, Indian head or Double eagle? That would make me get an ulcer. It's not just as simple as people think. Just carry a receipt! The TSA agent was a young kid and baffled at what it was... Made a big deal.... So what was the outcome? Ahhhhh Just confiscate it and make the guy prove proof of ownership. Anyone else have a problem with overseas coin carrying? Any advice?

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Confiscated? What was the reasoning. The whole airline security thing is a joke and a complete waste of our time and money. The politicans only did it to make the idiots "feel" safe, and to cover their own butts. Most of these screeners are people even Taco Bell wouldn't hire, lazy and stupid. You should have said, look, this is a coin. I own this coin. Why don't you show me proof that you own the quarter in your pocket?

As for numismatics, I think it's just another way for dealers to make money. Sure old coins that are in good condition should sell for more, but if you're buying new coins such as a 2005 Silver Eagle, then guess what? Every coin out of the tube should be at least MS-68, and they are. Large dealers send it to whatever grading service, jack up the price, and then hawk it off to "investors" who don't realize that all the coins produced are "mint" as well as they should be. How can a brand new freshly minted coin be anything other than in mint condition?

As for older coins, no one back then thought twice about those being collectables. Do you take care of that dollar bill in your wallet or 2005 Jefferson Nickel? Rarity, that's the #1 factor. MS-68+ recent coins are just not rare at all, and are actually commonplace. Buyer beware!

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

I was lucky and bought the set - PF69 1986-2005 NGC - on Ebay for about a grand. Real prety set it is - honest. The reason it was a discount was that (1) the 1993 coin in the set wasn't NGC just proof enclosed (2) the fellow offering it couldn't spell too good and nobody saw it!!!!!.

SO No big deal, I am a NGC member & PCGS - but PCGS treats the customers like poop. They still owe me four free certs for keeping a group for way-to long.

Always do MINIMUM searches FOR the folks using Ebay average about 4th grade educations - just kidding.

Best wishes,

enjoy the hunt.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

(Hope you don't mind if I pipe in here)

The set is nice and easily sold. The only problem I see with them is that in many cases one coin makes up almost 1/3 of the total value. Usually the $5 Indian. There has been renewed interest earlier in this segment than in some of the others. Hence in my opinion they are overpriced relative to the others and have already used up a good part of their potential. If you check prices you will see that they are stagnant in comparison. The other side is the majority of the set is in a grade lower or more than maximum potential.

I would like to eventually assemble a type set but know I won't pay $10k for a Princess or $20k for a incuse Indian. My strategy is to purchase those last or in a lessor grade and in the mean time purchase the best grade I can afford of what I feel are the real up and comers. Specifically $20 St's in MS65 or better, pre civil war $20 type 1 Lib's AU55 or better (the pre war stuff is getting really scarce), $10 Libs or Indians in MS64 or better. My personal market analysis tells me these have the best potential. When they pop I'll probably trade some for the denominations I don't have and hopefully get them at a discount compared to full retail today.

Of course buying any only at a good price......back to the joy of the hunt again. For sure DYODD! Most important of all have some fun.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Retired?! You're too young for that, go back to work full time and buy whatever you want.

Me? I'm just plain tired...........

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Thanks Sturdly.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Like our friend I like his advise but I PREFER to buy the MOST recognized coin in the world the Saint Guadens $20 gold piece. I buy as a newsletter fellow prompted me too: 2 - MS63s to 1 - MS65 - and try to grab the MS64s cheap too. (The indians are really expensive to me, SO I like the $10 Libs. both a 1/2 ounce approx.)

Ebay has some great deals if you play it right. If you don't have a coin then buy 'em 10 at a time if you can afford it and make a deal with one of the sellers ASAP. Even today the prices went up again - except for MS63 which took a MILD buying dip - for a moment!

IT ALL IN THE HUNT. DYODD first : spend 30 hours in research on grading.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

I agree with the post above. I like the $20 LIB & Saints (esp.) and the $10 Lib

CNI set is too expensive for what you get. BUT not the MS64 or MS65 special multible sets at:

http://www.golddealer.com/specialreport.asp AND go to the bottom of the article.

Buy only NGC and PCGS certs.

Best wishes
HS

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

$20 saints went up today again in MS64 to common/normal $1125
each PCGS.

The MS66 are up to $3300 now 3 times more.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

NGC uses another service to price out their coins. There are some super big differences between NGC's service and PCGS in-house service (pricing).

Seems that the MS60 up are higher at NGC: while AU down tend to go lower.

I've got a $600 difference on a $20 Saint in AU58 1922-S (rare puppy).

Really study your prices and the TRENDS.

Think of the common MS63s as 1000 dollar going up BILLS: the MS65s as two thousand dollar BILLS. then double and triple that in the future.

See this article:

http://www.golddealer.com/specialreport.asp

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

I have some 100 year old British Sovereigns. They're worth the gold content only. Why take the chance on having a market for your wares when the POG shoots up? Bullion is a much safer investment. I'd trade them for bullion, if they were mine. In 1980 you wouldn't have been able to get the premium. Ask anyone who remembers standing in line selling your family PM junk. I sold a broken watch made of platinum for $500 in 1980.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

I have a 5 centavos Cuban coin and was offered 1/2 american cent.....oh well back to the drawing board, would have been fun to see him cut a cent in half hahahahahahahahaha.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

In many ways you are right. I also have MANY, MANY, English Sovereigns: some over 150 years old. They are a wonderful coin. Just bought 14 more last week at $139 each all with the old queen on them I recall, 1890s to 1903. Now they are a buck cheaper. They have .235 an ounce of gold. I like the way they change the different queens and kings on them. I like them better than the quarter ounce eagles: which I save in tubes also. Love the history. Seems that the British allways gave their pilots 2 of them if they got shot down to buy their way out of the country using them as a bribe. Interesting. To me, anyway.

Many like to play with gold and silver stocks. I like to play with the collectables. As long as your core (to keep hold and store) is 90% gold and silver BULLION - I can see no harm playing in taking the other 10% to play in the Saints and Liberties. I buy gold and silver bullion at a 50 to 1 ratio: just like CEF the big bullion fund in Canada.

Down the road I plan to sell when the COLLECTABLE coin MARKET price doubles.

Then there are three choices of avenues to take:

1) sell 25% and keep the rest or

2) sell 50% and keep the rest or

3) sell 75% and keep the rest

I'm going for the 50% dealie - gives me the rest free to keep and enjoy.

Besides that's what Ebay is for - to have fun.

Thanks for helping me clarify my thoughts on the matter. Really, really.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

P.S. in 1989 the MS65s common date were around $4000 each. Money supply was only one-fifth of what we have right now. I don't know - but I conservatively expect a re-run like an old Hollyweird movie. I study all the old charts and got them from the GREY SHEET folks.

$4,000 to who-knows-what at $4,000 I'll be half gone - probably. Rest free and clear.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Agreed. Looks like you've got a handle on the numismatics. I'd sell some (one or two) sooner (like a month or two) than rather than later. Maybe wait until gold is reported on the news and the public starts to panic. Don't wait until the panic happens, it might be too late to unload. Don't get stuck with a "priceless" coin that no one wants or it might very well be priceless.
No one can predict what will happen on this gold bull, but it looks like it's going to be a wild ride.

Re: Note these GOLD coins going up and up....
 

Agreed. I always JUST buy the common stuff because I feel that what what I bought at first. Kinda like BULLION with a KICKER in collectable value. So far 95% of the stuff I bought went up - its a strange blessing - being right.

And I can see a pattern or trend that is carrying on throughout. The $10 Indians scare me as they are way too pricy - as does the 1907 High Relief Saints for they are WAY over priced compared to the other Saints in the similiar number range. Gosh, about 4 times! Even though they are pretty they are like buying an Edsel in the 1950s and 1960s - probably worth a lot now - but real scary for forty years - and I don't have 40 years.

Buy low and sell high - buy common and sell common - buy now as TPTB around the world are inflating (see the dictionary - monetary issue) the gosh darn whaa-hoo out of the money supply. They start hiding it next month and it's 20% now. 20 divided by rule 72s is 3.5 years to double - I repeat it's 20% now and they want to HIDE IT! My MOMMY drowned all the dumb ones - I got pretty wet learning over the last 60 years.

Back in the 1930s folks wanted anything of worth to cash in at the pawn shops. Anything. Bullion is a great thing to have. The collectables will probably go over to the next generation who at time will be about 50 to 60 and told what to do.

Nothing is new under the sun.

Thanks for your kind response. I wish you the best; and that goes for everyone trying to learn the fiat systems.